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	<title>Comments on: Democrats Throwing Away The Election To Bloody Each Other</title>
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	<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/</link>
	<description>Snarling and growling op-ed...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6114</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6114</guid>
		<description>Well, damn, I would be honored to be a pariah in the Clintonian world. After all, they've become pariahs in mine. Seems fair to return the favor.

If Richardson is a Judas, what's she? Christ? Get out the nails, warm up the hammers, there's gonna be a party tonight! Woo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, damn, I would be honored to be a pariah in the Clintonian world. After all, they&#8217;ve become pariahs in mine. Seems fair to return the favor.</p>
<p>If Richardson is a Judas, what&#8217;s she? Christ? Get out the nails, warm up the hammers, there&#8217;s gonna be a party tonight! Woo!</p>
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		<title>By: Evo</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6113</link>
		<dc:creator>Evo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Philly said &lt;i&gt;The “Audacity of Hope”, imo, is Obama’s hope that most people aren’t irrational ignoramuses. My hope is he’s right. We’ll see.&lt;/i&gt;

Why Philly, you are sounding rationally hopeful... I like it.

Ric, I just wrote a lengthy comment somewhere else about the most recent Hillary campaign bullshit - calling Richardson a "Judas" for endorsing Obama.  Basically, she's playing the fear card.  She wants every other Dem party official to think twice before supporting him, with the fear that they become a pariah in the Clintonian World.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philly said <i>The “Audacity of Hope”, imo, is Obama’s hope that most people aren’t irrational ignoramuses. My hope is he’s right. We’ll see.</i></p>
<p>Why Philly, you are sounding rationally hopeful&#8230; I like it.</p>
<p>Ric, I just wrote a lengthy comment somewhere else about the most recent Hillary campaign bullshit - calling Richardson a &#8220;Judas&#8221; for endorsing Obama.  Basically, she&#8217;s playing the fear card.  She wants every other Dem party official to think twice before supporting him, with the fear that they become a pariah in the Clintonian World.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6112</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6112</guid>
		<description>diana -

I sent a shortened version of the post to his website, to the address for comments and suggestions (which I don't have handy, but it's on his site somewhere). 

All I've gotten back are two requests for money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>diana -</p>
<p>I sent a shortened version of the post to his website, to the address for comments and suggestions (which I don&#8217;t have handy, but it&#8217;s on his site somewhere). </p>
<p>All I&#8217;ve gotten back are two requests for money.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6111</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6111</guid>
		<description>Ok, I agree with everything said here.  Now, how do we get these comments to Obama?  How do we get him to hear this wisdom, so he gets up off his .... and goes off and slays himself some dragons?????  I am getting sick of hearing Hillary's voice--and I was *for* Hillary just a few months ago.  But I am very disgusted with her poison, and her lies, and her husband's cheap shots.  AAAARRGH!!!  I just want to scream &#38; bang my head against the wall....
As far as Obama's running as an independent is concerned, as Ric said, I think it's too late for that.  Or maybe it's too early.  I don't see an Independent winning any national elections in the near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I agree with everything said here.  Now, how do we get these comments to Obama?  How do we get him to hear this wisdom, so he gets up off his &#8230;. and goes off and slays himself some dragons?????  I am getting sick of hearing Hillary&#8217;s voice&#8211;and I was *for* Hillary just a few months ago.  But I am very disgusted with her poison, and her lies, and her husband&#8217;s cheap shots.  AAAARRGH!!!  I just want to scream &amp; bang my head against the wall&#8230;.<br />
As far as Obama&#8217;s running as an independent is concerned, as Ric said, I think it&#8217;s too late for that.  Or maybe it&#8217;s too early.  I don&#8217;t see an Independent winning any national elections in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6110</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6110</guid>
		<description>Steph -

It's too late, I'm pretty certain, for Obama to set up a run as an independent, legally speaking, although he might be able to use the Green Party organization. I think they're registered in all fifty states. And if this goes to the convention, there definitely won't be enough time to set up an independent run in every state. As I understand it, that sort of thing is easier to manage in England. Here the two parties have locked up the wheels and gears of the legal system insofar as starting third parties or running as an independent. 


If Obama runs as an independent, the Republicans will win. I don't foresee any vast surge of Dems away from Clinton in that case. The vote will split. McCain wins. World goes to hell in a handbasket (what does that mean??)

As for supporting Clinton, I've always said that I'd vote for whoever the Dems put up, because the alternative is unthinkable. Okay, it's thinkable, but it's disgusting and dangerous. I don't like her, I don't trust her, and if she gets in we'll see four or eight more years of Clinton-Republican battles that will cripple the government - unless the Dems produce big majorities in Congress and get some smarter people up there, some tougher people (Shumer's idiotic support of Mukasey comes to mind in terms of needing tougher people who will fight the Reps tooth and nail).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steph -</p>
<p>It&#8217;s too late, I&#8217;m pretty certain, for Obama to set up a run as an independent, legally speaking, although he might be able to use the Green Party organization. I think they&#8217;re registered in all fifty states. And if this goes to the convention, there definitely won&#8217;t be enough time to set up an independent run in every state. As I understand it, that sort of thing is easier to manage in England. Here the two parties have locked up the wheels and gears of the legal system insofar as starting third parties or running as an independent. </p>
<p>If Obama runs as an independent, the Republicans will win. I don&#8217;t foresee any vast surge of Dems away from Clinton in that case. The vote will split. McCain wins. World goes to hell in a handbasket (what does that mean??)</p>
<p>As for supporting Clinton, I&#8217;ve always said that I&#8217;d vote for whoever the Dems put up, because the alternative is unthinkable. Okay, it&#8217;s thinkable, but it&#8217;s disgusting and dangerous. I don&#8217;t like her, I don&#8217;t trust her, and if she gets in we&#8217;ll see four or eight more years of Clinton-Republican battles that will cripple the government - unless the Dems produce big majorities in Congress and get some smarter people up there, some tougher people (Shumer&#8217;s idiotic support of Mukasey comes to mind in terms of needing tougher people who will fight the Reps tooth and nail).</p>
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		<title>By: steph</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6109</link>
		<dc:creator>steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6109</guid>
		<description>@ Ric

What I mean is that if he is robbed, he should stand as an independent. Hillary isn't likely to win (Republicans can't stand her and can Democrats really stomach any more of the Bush-Clinton dynasty?) so there's no reason to worry about upsetting her apple cart. 

He is doing well amongst Democratic voters but not very well with longstanding members of the Democratic party, if they select Clinton does the party deserve voters' support? 

btw, I've been having problems connecting to your blog today and yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ric</p>
<p>What I mean is that if he is robbed, he should stand as an independent. Hillary isn&#8217;t likely to win (Republicans can&#8217;t stand her and can Democrats really stomach any more of the Bush-Clinton dynasty?) so there&#8217;s no reason to worry about upsetting her apple cart. </p>
<p>He is doing well amongst Democratic voters but not very well with longstanding members of the Democratic party, if they select Clinton does the party deserve voters&#8217; support? </p>
<p>btw, I&#8217;ve been having problems connecting to your blog today and yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6108</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6108</guid>
		<description>If the superdelegates overturn the elected delegates the party is likely to come apart. I think that act would guarantee a Republican win. 

I think you're suggesting a third party run for him, right? He might do very well, but the split Dem vote also guarantees a McCain win. An outside parlay would have him coming back in 2012 with possibly a viable third party and a crumbled Dem party. Might work.

I don't see Huckabee in the mix with Obama. Huckabee's a hard core evangelical and a hard right political. That would undercut Obama's perceived message and vision, I think.

It's also looking more and more like he could ignore Clinton now, or soon, as she seems intent on cutting her own throat as she digs herself deeper into a hole she can't dig out of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the superdelegates overturn the elected delegates the party is likely to come apart. I think that act would guarantee a Republican win. </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re suggesting a third party run for him, right? He might do very well, but the split Dem vote also guarantees a McCain win. An outside parlay would have him coming back in 2012 with possibly a viable third party and a crumbled Dem party. Might work.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see Huckabee in the mix with Obama. Huckabee&#8217;s a hard core evangelical and a hard right political. That would undercut Obama&#8217;s perceived message and vision, I think.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also looking more and more like he could ignore Clinton now, or soon, as she seems intent on cutting her own throat as she digs herself deeper into a hole she can&#8217;t dig out of.</p>
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		<title>By: steph</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6107</link>
		<dc:creator>steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6107</guid>
		<description>Ric, I think you're right, ignoring Clinton and going on the attack against McCain makes sense, especially considering the campaign funding rules. Also if he keeps attacking McCain and loses to Clinton trough the super delegates, even if he has more of te popular vote, he should run anyway. Maybe he could choose Huckabee as running mate to shore up some of the Conservative vote. He won't win but does that matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ric, I think you&#8217;re right, ignoring Clinton and going on the attack against McCain makes sense, especially considering the campaign funding rules. Also if he keeps attacking McCain and loses to Clinton trough the super delegates, even if he has more of te popular vote, he should run anyway. Maybe he could choose Huckabee as running mate to shore up some of the Conservative vote. He won&#8217;t win but does that matter?</p>
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		<title>By: PhillyChief</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6100</link>
		<dc:creator>PhillyChief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6100</guid>
		<description>I've finally broken down and ordered that book, too. I just keep hearing of it everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve finally broken down and ordered that book, too. I just keep hearing of it everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6092</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grumpylion.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/democrats-throwing-away-the-election-to-bloody-each-other/#comment-6092</guid>
		<description>philly -

I just picked up a book called 'The Age of American Unreason' by Susan Jacoby. Don't know when I'll get around to reading it, but here's a blurb from the cover: "Jacoby has written a brilliant, sad story of the anti-intellectualism and lack of reasonable thought that has put this country in one of the sorriest states in its history." -Helen Thomas

fray -

Thanks for the warning. I didn't fall out of the chair, but I did gasp slightly. :) I do really think it's essential he start taking on McCain and the Republicans now, else McCain is going to just go around looking and acting Presidential for the next several months, allowing people to think of him that way and creating in effect a fait accompli. That's what his recent trip was about, I'm certain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>philly -</p>
<p>I just picked up a book called &#8216;The Age of American Unreason&#8217; by Susan Jacoby. Don&#8217;t know when I&#8217;ll get around to reading it, but here&#8217;s a blurb from the cover: &#8220;Jacoby has written a brilliant, sad story of the anti-intellectualism and lack of reasonable thought that has put this country in one of the sorriest states in its history.&#8221; -Helen Thomas</p>
<p>fray -</p>
<p>Thanks for the warning. I didn&#8217;t fall out of the chair, but I did gasp slightly. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I do really think it&#8217;s essential he start taking on McCain and the Republicans now, else McCain is going to just go around looking and acting Presidential for the next several months, allowing people to think of him that way and creating in effect a fait accompli. That&#8217;s what his recent trip was about, I&#8217;m certain.</p>
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